Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello. Once more delighted you can be here. My name's Peter Harrington and this is your Startup Survival podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Now for this show, I've driven across Yorkshire to the city of Wakefield to meet our special guest, Munir Mamujee a hardworking globe trotting entrepreneur. Munir has been at the helm of his own startup business for 20 years, passionate about making his international venture work, which means finding meaningful jobs for teachers and tutors all over the world. Munir will be sharing his thoughts on the emotive subject of personal pride. Now, my accompanying team of made up makeup artists and unreal beauticians of brilliance have traveled too. But since they are yet to finish working their magic with ea, we have a few moments to ourselves, which is handy. Handy because I want to pass back to the previous and popular podcast all about trust. If you are yet to hear my interview with Kajal, I highly recommend you tune into her shrewd and erudite take on trust in startup life.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
But if you have already plugged into episode 10, you'll also know I made a brief nod to a hitchhiking anecdote involving a Welsh rugby legend. Now, I could have shared that hitchhiking story in episode two when Dr. Claire Hookham talked to me all about surprise, because it was one hell of a surprise when I opened that weighty front passenger door, appeared inside the mighty Mercedes and realized the driving seat was occupied by the greatest rugby scrum half of all time, sir Gareth Edwards, now take you back. I will. To a bright early morning in the summer of 1989, after a brief stay in the coastal town of Borth just north of Abes, with I was standing with smile, hope, and a faithful ruck sack by the side of the A 4 87. But with no experience of thumbing lifts in this part of the world, I knew certainty was about as far away as snowdonia my desired destination for the day.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Cars passed as did time. Then after about 20 minutes, a saloon of stature swept over the crest in the road. And I remember half pulling in my outstretched thumb. Wagons do wonders for hitchhiker's self-belief, but luxury cars are a confidence crusher. Yet this one slowed. And then my carriage stopped. In my excitement, I hurriedly picked up my pack, moved swiftly to the near side door, and opened it peering into the vehicle, I immediately recognized our man. Fortunately, Gareth Edwards was heading my way. And so with time and an adrenaline fueled sense of curiosity, I couldn't resist quizzing him about his rugby career. And of course, that phenomenal and famous barbarians try against the All Blacks in 1973. If you haven't witnessed that sporting moment, Google the keywords and leave the rest to YouTube. Anyhow, the more Gareth spoke, the more I pinched myself. Was this really happening?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
One minute I'm a go nowhere lowly hitchhiker. And the next I have a front row seat and I'm chatting with a sporting legend companion. Curiosity continued, which ultimately led me to ask why Gareth had chosen to offer a complete stranger a lift. Well, as an uncapped teenager, Gareth recalled his invitation to join the Welsh Rugby Squad. Yet he had no means of traveling to that first training session. And so one wet or terminal evening, he hitchhiked from Cardiff to Swansea. Remember, back then rugby was an amateur sport. Anyhow, roadside with kit and in pouring rain, Gareth described how an E type jag suddenly pulled alongside a quick conversation, established Swansea was the common destination, and bags and personality were encouraged into the car. The driver made a speedy getaway. But why such a rush? Gareth asked me rhetorically because the man who kindly offered that lift was also a newspaper journalist from London who had been sent to write a feature all about the teenage Scrum half sensation and rising star within the Welsh rugby ranks. Well, you might as well start your questions now. Gareth said you're sitting next to the player you want to talk to.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
For me, sitting next to Gareth was a moment in time. I've never forgotten the details of our miles together. Remain with me to this day. The joy, the pride, all because Gareth was so generous and took a risk. Pride emerges when we know we've done something difficult, but right, and stealing from the poet Robert Frost. Hitchhiking like startup is all about taking the road less traveled. When going against the grain, we engage uncertainty and test ourselves. Yet rewards are never guaranteed. We flourish in the moment because the action, the risk, the ambition connects us with the possibility of achievement and a deeper sense of pride in what we can do and who we are.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Moving on from the Alchemy of 1989, I must share a really topical book with you, which I discovered as part of my podcast Research The Entrepreneur's Weekly Nietzche by David Gil and Brad Felt has some unexpected treasures to share, and I'll be exploring those gems a little later since my guest has been waiting ever so patiently and I must bring him onto the show. Munir is the founding director of M two R Education, a multi award-winning international education services company based in Wakefield, an export champion EA has built strong ties with clients in over 40 countries. Yet with all this strength and pedigree, the pandemic nearly brought Meniere's company to its knees. In this interview, I'm going to be finding out what happened in those dark and difficult times and learn how Munir reacted to the struggles and why he is now able to look back and reflect with a deep sense of pride. So let's crack on Munir. Maji, welcome to the Startup Survival Podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
No, thank you very much Peter, and thank you for inviting me on, which appreciated
Speaker 1 (07:27):
<Laugh>. Thanks Munir. Now, now to kick us off, can you share a bit more about the work you do and and why your work involves so much global travel?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Sure. So for the last 15 years, we've worked in the international education sector with using the word international. It does require a huge amount of global business travel to, for new business development for account management. So we, yeah, I have to travel globally
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And your business involves finding teachers and tutors jobs in, in different parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
When the big, when we first rebranded to M two R education, the core focus of the business was teacher recruitment. So the global mobilization of person from one country to another country. Over the last couple of years, we've now moved also into the online education sector, still working in over 40 countries, supplying tutoring services, English language services and teacher training services.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Okay. And are you placing UK teachers and tutors in work roles abroad or are you bringing people to the uk?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Our teacher recruitment business exists from moving people, for example, from the UK overseas, not the other way around.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I I see gotchu manir. And to give listeners a flavor, where do you do a lot of your business? You know, what are the popular destinations
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Currently? The most popular countries exist within the Middle East es especially because of their tax-free status. Dubai is still, I think, will always be the number one choice for a British teacher wanting to move overseas. The lifestyle, the salary, you know, it's very, very appealing. If I was 25 years younger, I think I'd be going as well. I can't blame them. Second half of that is Asia, but people go to Asia for very different reasons. They don't go for the financial benefits. They go to Asia for the cultural benefits and the traveling opportunities. So when we look at our recruitment business, one of our key strategies is to find out the key motivating factors for that person and why they want to go overseas.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Uhhuh, <affirmative>. Now those cultural differences are really interesting. Munir, I, I know we are not living in typical times right now, but in a so-called normal year, how, how many teachers would M two R be placing into jobs?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, let's talk pre covid and post covid 'cause those two numbers are hugely different. As I've mentioned our recruitment business, which isn't the only business we run, exists in the global mobilization of people. So you can see where this is going to go. So pre covid, we were mobilizing anything up to 300 teachers a year across the globe. Then when Covid struck, and this is where the business had to transition as well, we dropped to about five. And without starting up new businesses, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So Covid, you know, it really was a huge challenge for you.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Covid decimated our business. I never thought there'd ever be a global situation that will prevent people from moving in such high numbers. And the fact that it happened overnight as well meant that we had to react extremely quickly.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Okay. Now, as you know, Munir, our chat is about pride. And I imagine that you feel a great sense of pride still being in business and being able to talk to me about how you made it through. Can you share what you did in those early months? When the pandemic sent us all into to lockdown,
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I think that's a podcast on its own, to be fair. So, you know, I can remember like it was yesterday we packed the business up 'cause we were all told, so we went home and then within about the next 10 minutes, the realization set in that we had, I had to do something. Luckily we had one client who were, we worked with supplying teachers online, so they didn't have to go anywhere. So the first port of call was to contact them and then contact every other organization that I could find who also worked in the online teaching space and ask them how many teachers can they realistically take on a monthly basis. That was the first thing that we did. And we did that for about two months. And we went from moving online, Mrs. About 20 teachers online. The next month we did 3000 because the amount of people who were now looking for a job for one reason or another, and they couldn't go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So they're sitting at home desperate to work. We were getting jobs for key workers who couldn't go to the Nightingale hospitals. I remember the story vividly. We won an award for it because she had an underlying health condition and she rang us up saying, I see you've got online teaching jobs. Can I apply? And I spoke to her personally and by the end of the conversation she was applying and then she sent us a lovely reference saying, you know, a, it's nice to speak to a human being. Secondly, someone who's got empathy and you've helped me out because it wouldn't have been for you. I'd have been sitting at home and I can't do anything 'cause my chosen vocation I'm not allowed to do because my doctor won't let me. It was just an incredible time.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So you went from what must have felt like desperation with only five people being recruited to a situation where as a result of a business pivot, you've got way bigger numbers and people with whom you have never spoken are being really grateful for the services you offer. How did this make you feel?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, if I tell you that we won an award with Vodafone and they called us a hero, I think that can, that tells you everything because that's what it was like. It was just, it was madness. It really was. We were getting people from all different walks of life, contacting us, asking if we could help them now, because they'd lost their jobs. They couldn't go to work. We were recognized by the Daily Mail as well for the national work that we were doing through covid helping UK citizens, even if, just to get 'em a couple of hours a week. And it sometimes, it wasn't about the money, it was about their helping them with their mental strength and mental wellbeing that there were, that they, so they felt they had a worth and a value and that then drip fed down to us. And that's what gave us our pride. 
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Okay. And, and for context money, I can't imagine the work you've just described being a sort of nine to five job. Can you give me a sense of the kind of hours you and your team were working back then in the spring of 2020?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Well, before we decided to go to get even busier and set up other businesses during the pandemic, when we transitioned into online teacher recruitment and that's all we were doing, we went from, I don't know, a typical eight 30 till five to work. Seven till 10 every single day. 'cause We couldn't cope with the volume of applications that we were getting. We had to work on a rotor basis on a weekend. I had to get my staff buy-in because I couldn't, we couldn't physically do it. By the time we'd gone through the applications within 20 minutes, we, the 300, it was absolutely crazy because people were getting wind of the fact that we could help them.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You may recall the consequences of asking or rather not asking for help was a key topic in episode nine when Kyle Heggerty bravely opened up and shared his vulnerabilities. But being able to offer meaningful help is one of the joys of startup. Knowing you are giving genuine support, comfort or benefit is a source of entrepreneurial pride, especially if you are working within sectors such as health, welfare or education. But since Munir is in front of me and has ridden the pandemic rollercoaster, I'm sort of keen to get his take on what exactly pride means to him.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Pride in my opinion, is subjective anyway. What I feel might not be what somebody else feels. And I think that's very important. So I could turn round to you and say, I feel proud for X, Y, and Z. And another person could say, well, we don't understand. So for me as a business owner, it's very rare that somebody says, thank you. We are the ones that say thank you to other people. So pride, personal pride is, is, is is very insular. It's, it's an, it's an inward feeling, an inward thought. So when I leave work, at the end of every day, I'll sit in the car and I'll ask myself, what have we achieved today? What have I achieved today? And I won't drive until I can come up with one thing. And that's how I develop personal pride.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And, and do you sense pride to be a motivator at work?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Very much so. Without feeling proud of what you do, especially when times are really tough, it's too easy just to give up
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Uhhuh. And during the pandemic, did you ever feel like giving up?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh God, yeah. Probably three times a week.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So what kept you going?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
One, probably because we had other members of staff, so we, I had their families is to think about as well. Secondly, it was the fact that I was not prepared. I'll use the word waste to waste the last 15 years simply be for, because of a situation that was completely out of my control. I was not prepared to accept that we'd run our course.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Okay. So out of interest linked to the feeling of pride and keeping going. Do you or, or did you also sense of fear of what might happen to colleagues and their ability to pay mortgages, rent and bills? You know, if you close the business,
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Absolutely. You know, when you've got a team that's fighting with you through times of adversity, there is a sense of commitment to them and you feel indebted to make sure that they are okay, considering that they are working just as hard as you we're all pulling together. We're all motivating each other. You have to make sure that these, you know, these members of staff, these key core members of the team are looked after. Because when times were really tough, you know, in the early days of lockdown and you're sitting at your dining room table with your head in your hand, and you're thinking, what on earth am I doing? You need those people to keep you going.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Okay. And, and do you recall a moment, a significant moment with your team where you overcame adversity and sensed a, a deep personal or collective sense of pride?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I had to make sure that, that that team was galvanized and I had to make sure that morale stayed where it was, because now we're working in a very disjointed atmosphere. So one thing I did, which was completely nothing to do with work, I decided we were gonna set up, we were gonna create our own business related nursery rhymes. So they, I tasked them, they had to come up with a children's nursery. I'm like, you know, three little ducks or blah blah black sheep or something like this. But they had to relate it to either the current situation that we are in or work. And it was absolutely brilliant. So they, we all came up with these fantastic nursery rounds. We had a good laugh doing it. We then created them into lovely images and we posted them on LinkedIn, social media, Facebook, et cetera, and asked our clients friends to do their own. And it created a, a sense of camaraderie and it was absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
By chance, do you remember any of the rhymes, any of the verses
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh my word. Now you <laugh> now you're you're getting me. I think there was one about three little ducks and the duck couldn't come home 'cause of lockdown. And I think there was one about ba bar black sheep. You need to worry up and find a job before they all go. I, I'm not gonna be pushed into doing singing the nursery rhymes right now, but if <laugh>, if anybody wants to contact me afterwards, I will happily share the images. And you can have a laugh yourself. But I'm smiling as I'm saying it because it brings back such fantastic memories.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
<Laugh>. Oh, great stuff. Munir. Now, listeners will have heard me say before on this podcast that the best things in life are the things we share. And that's shining through in your story. Now you also mentioned the word camaraderie, seeing the team bond, seeing the team galvanize through adversity. Thinking back, did, did, did that give you a sense of added personal pride?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yes, a hundred percent. Knowing that they were okay as much as they could be. Okay. 'cause I'm sure that they had just as, you know, panic thoughts that I had seeing that they were okay and seeing them smiling was brilliant. I mean, I remember we did a, an online chocolate tasting event. I mean, how can you taste chocolate online? Well, we did it. I made them go to the shops and buy chocolate and I got a C chocolatier on Zoom and we did chocolate tasting and things like this. So I think that they could see as well that we were all pulling and all, you know, working together and just to get little messages just to say, oh, that was brilliant. Oh, well done. You know, let's keep going. It's fantastic
Speaker 1 (23:22):
For me, money's pride and pandemic struggle reflects several points from the hitchhiking story I shared with Sir Gareth Edwards in the startup world. Uncertainty abounds, but meaningful progress always requires action. And we have to know what matters to us and what motivates others little can be achieved on our own. And this brings me nicely onto the book I mentioned earlier, the Entrepreneur's Weekly Nietzsche. For listeners who know about Frederick Nietzsche, you are probably wondering, why am I introducing a 19th century German philosopher who look down on commerce and is revered for his thinking about art ethics and politics? Well, I'm suggesting you get this book not for Nietzsche's views on commerce, art ethics, or politics, but so you can benefit from his entrepreneurial thinking. Authors David Gil and Brad felt highlight that disruption was at the heart of all Nietzsche's work. Nietzsche focused on disrupting outdated ways of thinking and questioning traditional beliefs and moral judgments.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
In his 1878 book, human All Too Human Nietzche writes about the importance of deviating natures. And the fact deviance is at the heart of progress. Entrepreneurs like hitchhiker deviate differ and go a different way. Progress depends on difference and deviance. When we are susceptible, when we succumb to the powers of beige groupthink, we are much less likely to create and think anew. And as a result, I am fairly certain it is much more difficult to find the kind of personal pride in our work that Munir has talked about. Now, I'm keen to get back to Nia because he mentioned earlier not wanting to let go of the many years of hard work he spent building his original startup venture Munir. The business, the businesses you, you have are no accident in the pre pandemic years. You worked incredibly hard in Yorkshire, but also internationally to generate revenue for your company and of course UK P L c for context. Can you give me a sense of what going those extra miles and working internationally involved?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So when we first went international in 2007, I never would've dreamt that I'd be getting on and off a plane every three months. So my first trip was to Dubai on my own to meet some existing customers that we'd secured through emails. From there, we then started doing a lot of work with Department for International Trade and going on trade missions, which is basically a, a group of like-minded business owners with government representatives attending high level business meetings in specific in particular places. So for example, I've done about 40 trade missions now, and I've been all over Asia, middle East, north Africa, and they're absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Uhhuh and and out of interest, as someone representing UK business interests overseas, did you feel a, a sense of pride
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Initially? I'll be honest, no, because there was no context. I was invited to go on one and I ended up on a bus going across the causeway from Bahrain to Saudi. But after I'd done three or four and I'd met ambassadors, and then it wasn't until someone gave me a pin badge that the uni and Jack and the flag of the country that we were going to. And all of a sudden it hit me that we were actually ambassadors for our own country and that, that pushed it up a level. And that really, really gave me a sense of pride pushed your chest out because not only were we promoting our own businesses, we are now promoting Great Britain. And that was just an incredible feeling.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Okay. And as someone who works in the sector, can you share how the people you meet and have met on these trade missions view British education?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, still to this day, it is revered. If we look just at, at the recruitment side of our business, the amount of British international schools that there are around the world and the amount of British international schools that are opening on a, an annual basis that tells its own story. When we look at our tutoring business, it, the clients that we work with, whether that's education agents, whether it's families, 99% of them are wanting tutoring because they want their children to attend a British university. So the fact that we are a British company offering British services within the, within the education sector, you know, it's a tremendous place to be
Speaker 1 (28:58):
<Laugh>. It's great to hear your passion and your patriotism. Venere, if I can, I just want to move the conversation on, because I'm keen for any startup who is thinking of exporting to learn what they have to do to develop a, a meaningful international trading business. Can it all be done via emails and, and Zoom calls?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I think everyone would be delighted if I turned around and said, you only have to meet somebody once. But the, the, the reality is no, not at all. It's all about building relationships. You know, the phrase, you know, seeing the whites of your eyes. You have to keep going. You have to show that, that level of commitment, because sometimes as a UK national, you know, we have this arrogant feeling that because we're from the uk, people will buy our services. Well, nothing is further from the truth. You are probably the 15th British business that they've seen that month. And so they're thinking, why on earth should I work with you and not somebody else? So the way we've done it, and the way I've always done it is you keep going back, you keep building those relationships, and those relationships should and will stand the test of time. When our recruitment business, and I use the word died because it did because of Covid, I reached out to my clients within the education sector and told them I was setting up a tutoring business. They provided me with work in my new tutoring business. They wouldn't have done that if I wouldn't have built up those relationships over the years by constantly going to see them.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So is it fair to say that all the work you did to develop the international trading relationships saved you and your business?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yes. 
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I also get a sense that your investment in time, investment in relationships and investment in trust, you know, really paid off. Are there key lessons here for any service sector business looking to develop its quality customer standards?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Quality is extremely important because as I mentioned before, I'm under no impression that I wasn't the first business within my sector to sit in, be, you know, across the desk from a particular individual. So with that in mind, you've gotta look at your own usps. And the biggest one is quality, efficiency, customer service, customer care. You've gotta look at the pain points and you know, why would a business work with us as opposed to somebody else? We are not the biggest, we are not the most well known. So why, you know, there's the stories of the small advertising company who gets the deal with Nike and Adidas over the big boys. Why did they do it? Because they stood in front of them and they bel the, the organizations believed what they were saying and then they backed it up. And that's all we do.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'll have the meeting and I'll sit there and I'll talk enthusiastically and honestly about what we do. And that enthusiasm and that pride of how we work, that filters into the cu that that gets through to the customer. The customer will buy in to the fact that I am proud of what we do. So their opinion is, well, if the, if the business owner is proud, he will deliver an excellent service. And to this day, 20 years later, I genuinely, and please anyone challenge me on this, I cannot remember a time where a customer told us they didn't wanna work with us because we haven't delivered or haven't done something that we promised that we did, that we, that we would do.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And one final question on this subject, if I may. You know, and it links back to, you know, the pride you mentioned. You know, is there a deep rooted reason Munir, why, you know, you are working in education in this sector?
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Well, when I was at university I wanted to move the education sector after I'd finished, but it never quite happened for numerous reasons. When we first got our first education client back in 2007, it just felt right. It just felt like I'd found my place. Then throughout the years, my passion for education grew. Children came along, they got into school, I could see how they were developing. And I just wanted to focus purely on education and also helping children be the best that they can be. And if that means that we can offer tutoring services, recruitment services by giving them better edu access to better levels of education, then so be it. You know, I'm now moved into a situation where I'm also a school governor. And again, I'm doing that because of my passion for education and I want to make a difference.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Munir, you have shared insightful stories and valuable experience. Now, it would be great if we always got everything right, but we both know entrepreneurship and simply being human involves many mistakes and much error. Entrepreneurs are not known for their talent as shrinking violets. And from time to time, our ego can rule our minds. We, we've talked about different aspects of pride, but have you ever experienced misplaced pride?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I always look at every opportunity as the best opportunity ever, and 99% of them are not. And I'll always pursue them. And 99% of them don't actually go anywhere at all. And it's a pure ego thing 'cause I don't want to fail. But I'll tell you one story. When I was overseas I'm classically trained as a, a salesperson in the UK went overseas, one, I don't know, first or second ever meeting, sitting in front of a potential new client. And I tried to close him in the way I used to close when I worked in directory advertising back in the late nineties. Well, I very quickly realized that from a cultural perspective, it was probably the worst thing I could have done. And that taught me a very, very, very valuable lesson that if I'm gonna work overseas, I need to actually make an effort and understand the different cultures and business etiquette across the world, which I've now done thankfully. But if it wouldn't have been for making that huge, embarrassing mistake, I'd have just bumbled on
Speaker 1 (36:12):
<Laugh>. I take it You didn't win that piece of work then?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Incredibly we did, but only through a huge level of backtracking and humor
Speaker 1 (36:22):
And a bit of humility.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Absolutely. Absolutely
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Uhhuh. And on that note, can you offer startups any advice on the issue of showing humility and being humble?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
For me, I didn't really understand humility until we packed up and went home. And I sat there thinking, what on earth am I going to do? And now looking back that we've set up all these new businesses, we've got all these new clients, some who have looked after us and helped us to get to, you know, on this new journey, there is huge level of humility. And I feel extremely humbled that these people were willing to give us a chance 'cause they didn't have to. And I'll never forget that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Now, Munir you, you worked really hard before and throughout the pandemic and you've demonstrated that journey is laced with pride. Your graft saved your business, you saved jobs. And I get a sense that in recent times you even saved yourself too. But you mentioned earlier that entrepreneurs are rarely thanked for all their hard work, yet you did receive a letter of recognition that I believe had a real impact and made a big difference to you.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
So <laugh> back at the start of December, 2021 I got a an odd message from my father of all people saying, can you come round? There's a letter for you that's addressed from the cabinet. I'm thinking, oh my word, what have I done? So I went, okay, fine. I didn't make it a priority 'cause I didn't, I didn't realize what it was. So I turned up and he's holding this letter and he said he's address to you. I haven't opened it. Can you open it? So I opened it and then I opened, then I opened it again, and then I opened my eyes. Then I opened my eyes a bit wider and he said I was getting an M B E, which didn't make any sense because it's not the sort of thing that you can nominate yourself for. So it was completely unexpected. And it took a long time to sink in. It's, it is as if time just stopped. So I got the letter and went, thank you very much, and just went home.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
And what was the M B E for?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
The M B E was for services to education and export.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Okay. And you had no idea this was coming?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Absolutely no idea. And even today it's still extremely overwhelming, surreal, and very, very bizarre that I've now got letters after my name.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
So when you had the time to reflect on this impressive letter of recognition, how did it feel?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Well, initially there was a huge level of bewilderment because, and also I use afraid imposter syndrome as well, because I couldn't understand why I'd been nominated, even though inwardly there was a huge sense of pride and delight outwardly I didn't understand because as far as I was concerned, as I use this phrase quite a lot, I'm just a simple blow running an office in Wakefield. And I never thought this would happen.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
W well, you know, of course it did happen. And a few months later you were invited to Buckingham Palace. What was that day like?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Well, that was probably gonna be one of the best days ever. So me and my partner went to London in our new posh clothes walked up to the gates of Buckingham Palace with all the tourists there wondering what on earth we were doing, you know walking and looking so pristine. Walked into the grounds, walked through into the the, the the inner courtyard of Buckingham Palace walked into booking and palace up the red carpet. It was abso it was, I've used this word before. It was surreal because never in my life what I ever thought I'd be. I'd be walking into booking and palace. Everybody in there made you feel so welcome. And so at ease there were no nerves, which is perfect because everybody there was nervous. We were there for a couple of hours. We got to see some of the most amazing state rooms in booking and palace that the normal, you know, run of the mill person would never see.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And I do class myself as a normal run of the mill person. So I think most of the time we're just walking around with his mouthers open in awe of where we were. Then we went and because of Covid, as I understand booking and Palace changed how they do the investitures. So we, instead of you all sitting in one room and getting called up, essentially, we had a private audience and mine was with princess Alan, princess Royal. So there was in the room there was me, there was some gir, there was Lord Chamberlain. I, I do believe there was some yeoman of the guard. There was my partner and we were in the throne room at Booking and Palace, which has got the thrones of Queen Elizabeth, prince Philip, queen Victoria. I only know this because I've seen it on the video. 'cause On the day I was so focused, I don't remember any of this. I had a, a five minute conversation with Princess Anne. I made a laugh. It was just absolutely unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
And of course, I imagine you felt a deep sense of pride.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh, fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. You know, I can't explain just how I felt wandering around with that medal on. And when we went for drinks afterwards and sitting with that medal on it was just, ugh, amazing.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
What a lovely story and what a great way to round off this episode with Munir. For me. You absolutely deserve to feel so proud. Munir listeners may be able to hear it in your voice, but I can see the emotion in your eyes as you speak it. It's so touching to know how much that achievement and recognition means to you. Sadly, we have reached the end of our time together, but as usual, I have one final question. Have you a recommended read Top tip or suggested resource re for anyone starting out on their entrepreneurial journey?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Well, for me, the book that always resonates is called the E-Myth by I do believe Michael Gerber. And it's a book about the fact that just because you are good at your job doesn't mean to say that you'd be any good at running a business. And I set my business up because I was good at my job. I had never run a business before in my life. And the book takes you through the steps of how to transition from being what he calls a technician into being a business owner. He uses analogies, he uses related stories. It's absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Okay, so that's the E-Myth by Michael Gerber. And for listeners, if you are looking for this gem, that's Gerber spelled G e r b e r, well Munir, it has been an absolute pleasure to be able to spend time with you and learn about your startup journey. You have definitely taken the road less traveled, you've disrupted, and much progress has resulted. Thank you Manea Maji, M B E for being such a standout guest on the Startup Survival Podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Thank you very much as well. And I hope it's been a benefit.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Well, there you have it. I really hope you have been inspired by Munirs story and take on all issues connected with the topic of personal pride. And if you are seeking to teach in another country, why not visit the website m two r global.com and see how your life could take a completely new turn? Well, that just about wraps up everything for episode 11, which of course means we only have one podcast left in this series. And I would be delighted if you could tune into my interview with Greg Shepard as he reflects on his entrepreneurial life in episode 12, entitled Billionaire Guilt. Greg will be talking about how he built his businesses from scratch, but more importantly, we'll be sharing how it feels to be responsible for such wealth. Please join me for my chat with Greg well back to the present. Thank you once more to my fabulous colleagues Duncan, an silla.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Your production and editorial support is so much appreciated. And let's not forget to recognize our special guest, Munir, for sharing how pride weaves its way into so many aspects of entrepreneurial life. And before we finish, I must once again, thank Sir Gareth Edwards for trusting me all those years ago when I stood on that Welsh roadside. So please keep your feedback coming as it is always welcomed. Share what you really like about this podcast and let me know what needs to be improved. And whatever your listening channel of preference, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe until we meet again for the final episode in this series. My name's Peter Harrington and this has been your Sim Venture Sponsored Startup Survival Podcast. Go well, stay safe and thank you
Speaker 3 (47:45):